Rob Relyea

xaml:Blog

FAQ: Why doesn't Avalon/Indigo March CTP work with VS Beta2

Stevey asked a FAQ about why Avalon March CTP doesn't work with VS 2005 beta2.  I'll explain why here.

First of all there are 3 players in this story.

  1. .Net Framework 2.0
  2. Avalon
  3. Visual Studio

Avalon & VS have dependencies on .NET Framework
Avalon's assemblies (PresentationFramework.dll, PresentationCore.dll, etc...) are compiled against a specific build of the .net framework.  A specific build of Avalon will only work with the build of the .net framework that it was compiled against.

Same goes for Visual Studio...it requires a specific build of .Net Framework.

Different Schedules
The .Net Framework team and the Visual Studio team is on one ship schedule -- shipping .Net Framework 2.0 and VS 2005 this year.

The Avalon and Indigo teams are on another ship schedule, shipping in 2006.

Avalon and Indigo pick up periodic builds of the .Net Framework 2.0 every couple of months.  While .Net Framework 2.0 is being developed, there are many breaking changes between builds that we pick up, so this process takes work from several people on our team.  Scheduling when this happens depends on when a partner drop is done by the .Net team and when a non-disruptive time for the Avalon team to pick up the build is.

Now that Avalon and Indigo are shipping CTPs together, we both need to coordinate which build of .Net Framework 2.0 we work on.

Which Build Goes With Which Build

Here is a brief table that shows build numbers for each of the WinFX CTPs.

Avalon & Indigo
CTP Releases

Required .Net Framework Version

Required Visual Studio Version

November 2004

V2.0.40607

Beta 1 (8.0.40607)

March 2005

V2.0.50110

Feb CTP

May 2005 - Beta 1 RC

V2.0.50215

Beta 2

Updated: build of Avalon/Indigo is out now in May...

 How to figure out which build of the .Net Framework 2.0 you have installed:

Look in c:\windows\microsoft.net\framework for a folder that starts with "v2.0." 

That folder name is the build of the .Net Framework you have installed on you machine.

 

Only one build of .Net Framework 2.0 can be installed at a time

It is not possible to have v2.0.50110 and v2.0.50215 at the same time.

Because of that it is not possible to have an Avalon/Indigo CTP that requires one .Net Framework build and a Visual Studio build that requires another.

Note: It is possible to have .NetFramework 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0 installed on the machine at one time.  It is also possible to install VS 2003 and VS 2005 on the same machine.

The Quick Summary

If you are focused on Avalon development, don't jump the gun and upgrade your Avalon development machine to the latest VS CTP unless a new Avalon and Indigo CTP has been released.

 

I'll modify this post based on your feedback/questions…let me know what isn't clear.

Update: clarified many places where I said ".Net Framework" to ".Net Framework 2.0".  Added the note about being able to install 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0 at the same time.

Posted on Apr 27 2005, 07:37 AM by rrelyea
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Comments

  • So, there's no way to add Assembly binding redirects in the .NET 2.0 COnfiguration wizards?
    April 27, 2005 1:05 PM
  • rrelyea said:
    While you likely could tell .Net that it is ok to run avalon or vs on top of the non-matching version of the .net runtime...the code wouldn't run well or at all, i believe, due to breaking changes in the .net runtime between those versions.

    I'm not aware of anything like this that would work...
    -Rob
    April 28, 2005 10:49 AM
  • bonk said:
    So when (approximately) will we see an avalon/winfx CTP that will run with vs2005 beta2 ?
    April 28, 2005 11:31 AM
  • I tried installing Indigo and and hoped to use Visual Studio to be able develop/deploy/invoke a Web Service but it was'nt that simple.
    April 30, 2005 11:58 AM
  • rrelyea said:
    >>It wasn't so simple.

    You should post your issues to nntp://microsoft.public.windows.developer.winfx.indigo
    and I'm sure people will help you find the way...
    April 30, 2005 1:16 PM
  • I tried installing Indigo and and hoped to use Visual Studio to be able develop/deploy/invoke a Web Service but it was'nt that simple.
    May 3, 2005 12:26 AM
  • I have gotten a couple of questions since VS 2005 Beta 2 released a few weeks ago asking how to integrate...
    May 3, 2005 10:01 PM
  • carlso said:
    > November 2004
    V2.0.????? (I'll update with this number)
    (I'll update with this number)


    I can help you out with the missing info... I still have a system with the Avalon Nov2004 CTP installed. It requires (from the VS About Box):

    .NET Framework V2.0.40607
    and
    Visual Studio 2005 Beta1 (Version 8.0.40607.16)
    May 5, 2005 1:38 AM
  • MichaelLatta said:
    Correct me if I am missing something obvious. One of the advertised benifits of the CLR is handling the versioning DLL-Hell problem. I can understand that the versions of VS and Avalon were compiled against specific versions of .NET, and that the expected versions must be present. I can understand that you would not want during development to test with multiple versions, or even support them in production. That is certainly your choice. What I do not see is why only one version of the libraries can be installed at once. What happens when I want to run applications compiled against .NET 1.1 (production apps for example) and those compiled against 2.0 (development for example). When more and more applications are using managed code, it is inconceivable to me that you can "solve" the versioning problem while only having one version of the framework installed on a machine. Is this just that 2.0 is when versioning support starts?
    May 8, 2005 12:03 AM
  • rrelyea said:
    CarlSo- Thanks. I've updated the version numbers.

    Michael-
    .NetFramework 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0 can all be installed side by side.
    .NetFramework 2.0 and Visual Studio 2005 limit themselves to having only one build installed at the same time for that particular version.

    Supporting side-by-side installation and execution for different major versions of the .net framework and visual studio is clearly important – that is why we support installing 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0 at the same time.

    Supporting side-by-side installation for different CTP and Beta versions is not critical and isn’t supported – that is why we don’t support installing .net framework v2.0 beta1 and v2.0 beta2 at the same time.

    Thx,
    Rob
    May 9, 2005 7:33 PM
  • MichaelLatta said:
    Thanks for clearing up the comments in the original post "Only one build of .NET can be installed at a time". I suggest you edit that to "Only one buid of .Net 2.0 Framework can be installed at a time". I certainly understand that MS does not want to put too much effort into supporting multiple installs of beta or pre-beta software. Can I have VS 2003 and 2005 installed at the same time? This would allow me to have my production tools (2003+.NET 1.1) and the new tools for WinFX (Feb CTP+WinFX March CTP)?
    May 10, 2005 12:33 PM
  • rrelyea said:
    Michael-
    sorry for the confusion there. i've edited the post to refer to .net framework 2.0.
    yes, you can have vs2003 and vs2005 installed side-by-side.

    Thanks, Rob
    May 10, 2005 1:09 PM
  • MichaelLatta said:
    How difficult is it to have the beta bits along side the production bits? When updating to a new build of the beta bits is the uninstall clean these days? Do I really need to look at VirtualPC or VMware to isolate the beta VS and WinFX bits from production work?
    May 12, 2005 2:23 AM
  • MichaelLatta said:
    Rob,

    One more question. The MSDN Downloads site only has beta 1 and beta 2, no Feb CTP except in the express versions. Is there a full version available for the Feb CTP? If so, where can a subscriber locate it?
    May 13, 2005 9:05 PM
  • May 17, 2005 10:45 PM
  • rrelyea said:
    Michael-
    Yes, you can have VS 2003 and VS 2005 installed side-by-side. I'm not aware of any problems with that.

    Uninstall of VS gets better every build, but I've had spotty results over time. Isolation with Virtual PC or the like is the safest route. I usually choose to attempt to uninstall and install the new build...if i run into a blocker issue, i reinstall Windows XP.

    I believe a member of the VS team has blogged about how to completely clean machines from VS CTP builds. Searching now...Aaron Stebner...http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/2005/04/19/409555.aspx

    Given that tool, I would lean towards installing directly on XP...but worst case you may need to reinstall your OS...
    May 18, 2005 6:58 AM
  • rrelyea said:
    Michael-
    Oops. I just asked where to find it.
    Seems like since B2 of VS superceeds it, it was removed.

    1) Next ctp build is coming very soon (this month), so maybe you won't care
    2) I'm working with the VS and MSDN teams to ensure they understand that we need to keep these available when our latest Avalon/Indigo CTP needs it.
    2a) on that note, once we do ship a new CTP, do you see any need to access the previous ctp bits? if so, for how long and why?

    Thanks (and sorry), Rob
    May 18, 2005 8:35 AM
  • MichaelLatta said:
    Once a new CTP is out for WinFX I do not see a need for older bits since I will already have them. The current problem is getting a full set of bits that work together. As a late comer to the game I only have access to the Express version of VS that works with WinFX (even though I paid for Universal). Here is hoping a new WinFX CTP comes out on top of Beta2 or the May CTP for VS soon.

    I ahve been using VirtualPC as the "safe" thing to do, and realized that I am not getting any of Avalon's GPU features. Under XP is there a real difference in working directly on the GPU? Or is that only Longhorn?

    Using the Express VS seems to get slower with each debug cycle. Is this unique to me or is it just the way it is for now? Or is that VirtualPC related? I am on a 2.0Ghz Sonoma based machine and it gets unusable after about 30 min of steady VS usage. Exiting and restarting VS helps get it back to only painful.
    May 18, 2005 1:20 PM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    September 16, 2005 7:23 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    September 19, 2005 11:52 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    September 22, 2005 12:40 PM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    September 22, 2005 6:20 PM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    September 24, 2005 6:21 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    October 1, 2005 4:08 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    October 7, 2005 12:12 PM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    October 15, 2005 6:52 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    October 19, 2005 11:24 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    October 28, 2005 6:34 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    I already see many queries about a build of WinFX that works with the just released VS/.Net Framework:...
    October 28, 2005 7:01 AM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    PDC 2005!
    Having a great time at PDC2005!  Man, am I excited.
    We had the "Ask the Experts" session...
    November 10, 2005 11:50 PM
  • Rob Relyea said:
    Critical Update (11/18/2005)
    No reason to install the PDC (Sept 2005) CTP of WinFX anymore.  November...
    November 18, 2005 5:11 PM