Robert McLaws: Windows Edition

Blogging about Windows since before Vista became a bad word

Doncha Love That New OS Smell?

BSODs (oops, sorry "kernel panics"), application compatibility problems, new security dialogs, pundits warning users to postpone upgrades, users canning the OS entirely... is it time for Vista SP1? Nope, seems like Vista isn't the only operating system that had a lot of issues right out of the gate. OS X "Leopard" has finally launched, and all those Mac fanboys who laughed haughtily at Vista users have been choking on crow feathers for a few days now.

Even Microsoft-watchers-turned-Mac-fanboys are having second thoughts. Joe Wilcox, who is arguably no great fan of the company he writes about, says [via Neowin]:

Apple's newest operating system is at best an evolution from predecessor Tiger. Some of the criticisms leveled at Windows Vista apply to Leopard. Seriously.

...

By comparison, Vista's shakedown is largely over. I have little to complain about and lots more to like about Vista than I did in February.

Before I get flamed for posting about it, Joe also posted a list of reasons it is better than Vista, but as he said himself, they had little to do with Leopard itself and more with the ecosystem. (His post about the Microsoft/Apple Double-Standard is also a good read).

Switchers aren't the only ones pissed. Even Apple co-founder Steve Wozinak doesn't have very good things to say about the company right now.

Of course Apple will post fixes for all this stuff, and life will go on. But between this, the iPhone unlocking debacle, using credit cards to track who purchased what iPhone (and limiting the number you can buy) to fight unlockers, screwing their early iPhone adopters, Apple may very well be architecting the worst PR turnaround in history.

In the meantime, Brad Wardell, one of the most well-versed people on the technical details of the Windows platform (and therefore one of it's more vocal critics) just posted a list of the "Ten Cool Things about Vista you may not have heard of", otherwise known as "10 of the 30,000 new features in Vista you're guaranteed to take for granted."

Now Microsoft should come out with commercials making fun of Leopard, like Apple did with Vista. But I don't think Microsoft would do that... they have more class than that.

Apple users: Enjoy your new OS, and us Windows fanboys will try to refrain from laughing at you... too hard.

UPDATE: Apparently Leopard has other quality control issues as well. Apple, your arrogance has just gone too far. The day is coming where it will come back to bite you, just like it did Microsoft.

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Comments

  • Jim said:

    Not to mention the hundreds of complaints about the iPod Classic totally locking up, disconnected, not syncing, etc. Apple's quality control, and technical support, seem to be falling apart lately. And I say that as a long time Apple customer.

    October 30, 2007 12:38 PM
  • Glennyboiwpg said:

    Wow... What launch did you did you watch?

    Talk about over reacting?  Did you write this article before leopard came out and just updated it with some details?

    blah blah <insert overblown bad remark here/> blah blah

    You took some tiny exceptions (people who had third party junk on their machines) and said WOW look at this HORRIBLE FAILURE BY APPLE!

    Well Look at these articles that actually research before they blog.

    http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/expect_the_wors.html

    "Expect the worst, but it probably won't be that bad"

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=987

    An apple tech guy boasting about leopard

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=988

    The same apple tech guy getting a general thumbs up/down on leopard (poll) and addressing the small handful of users who got the windows like BSOD.

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=884

    A NON APPLE writer gives it a fair chance and loves it.  (you know.. fair chance... try it?)

    "Overall, I’m thrilled with the experience and looking forward to getting more hands on time with Leopard and my Mac mini. Watch this space for more thoughts and information. Thoughts?"

    http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9806255-7.html?tag=more

    My personal favorite, a blog comparing the leopard and vista.

    So my point?  Yeah there were some problems with leopard but they weren't as big as Vista's and I'm betting that they will be fixed long before vista's ever will.  But some small problems from a  small group of people a bad OS it does NOT make.

    Quit blowing this out of proportion just to justify your love for a flawed product.

    Flame away boys!

    October 30, 2007 12:42 PM
  • James said:

    Good stuff. I posted pretty much the same thing yesterday as well after Don Reisinger's article on CNet yesterday.

    October 30, 2007 2:15 PM
  • Imran said:

    Its about time :) We also had some fun seeing the OS X ahem on fire , lol

    October 30, 2007 2:24 PM
  • Glennyboi said:

    Wow.  This article took me by surprise as i've been reading articles for the past few days and found that leopard's reception was well recieved. (It installed perfectly fine on my 2 macs.  Sorry Robert hate to break that to you)

    I was very upset when I read this article because its very apparent that you really don't care about how leopards recieved, you only care about searching the net for those few bad stories about bugs that probably didn't affect that many people to begin with and those bugs that apple will have fixed real quick and you blow them up like they are the worst thing in the world.

    I had a big long list of articles prasing leopard and apple but I really see no reason why I should post them as they probably won't get read anyway.  Why does this bother me so?  I mean seeing a negitive story about leopard on a M$ fanboi's blog shouldn't be too surprising should it.  No, the reason why this erks me so much is that there IS a double standard between MS and apple.

    When MS comes out with a new product (ZUNE, Vista, etc) and there are bugs, you guys sit there and scream "I don't want to hear anything about this, This is a Version 1 product and MS will fix the bugs in the next release."  At which point you cover your ears and start shouting "LA LA LA LA"

    But when an apple product comes out, has a small hicup (Come on, these problems are NO where near what was going on with vista) you scream at apple for not getting it 100% perfect the first time around.

    October 30, 2007 2:29 PM
  • Kyle said:

    I'm not denying that some may be having problems with Leopard but I personally haven't had any at all.

    I have 3 Macs at home and I manage 8 at work and all installed Leopard without any issues.

    I also know quite a few other Mac users and have only had one person who had trouble using Adobe CS2 but Apple is hardly responsible for Adobe software's behavior.

    Unlike Vista, Apple never claimed Leopard was going to be "revolutionary". Leopard is Mac OS X 10.5, as in the 6th major version in the OS X series. On the other hand, Microsoft has since day 1 claimed Vista (formerly known as Longhorn) was going to something that will change the world. Just because Leopard and Vista came out about the same time, it doesn't mean Apple made Leopard to compete with Vista specifically and had the same goals. Heck, Vista/Longhorn was supposed to be released back when Tiger was released wasn't it? ;)

    With that said, Apple and its products are far from perfect, but Microsoft fans are the last people to be laughing at others.

    BTW, I'm interested in seeing the adoption rate of Leopard vs Vista.

    October 30, 2007 2:36 PM
  • James said:

    To be fair, the majority of the issues I had with Vista on release were 3rd party software/driver related. If you apply the same mentality to Apple's woes, you have to give the same nod to Microsoft as well.

    Apple has better control over those issues due to the hardware that they support. I personally would rather have freedom of choice and work through the little niggles as they get worked out over time, which they have in my case, making Vista a very solid platform overall.

    October 30, 2007 3:43 PM
  • Glennyboiwpg said:

    Is that really the issue james?  3rd party software/drivers issues.

    I mean... has there EVER been a OS release (Any platform/OS) in history that hasn't had ANY problems with that?

    So lets put that aside then.  The real question will be:  In 3 months will Apple be forced to sell macs with tiger on it due to people just hating leopard.

    Will people be confused as to which version of leopard to get... the home premime or the home office version.

    Will leopard be absolutely usesless with anything under 2 gigs of ram?

    (This one has the best chance of comming true due to OSX loving ram, but I am running my 2.0 Ghz mac under 1 gig and its running fine so far, and my macbook has 512mb and its not complaining yet)

    Will leopard kick me into a reduced funcationaly mode if I don't register with apple... will it do even if I do register?

    These are the reasons why vista is a flop, and these are the reasons why dell was forced to bring back XP.  These minor growing pains will be resolved/forgotten about in a month or two.

    Lets forget about vista and start looking forward to windows 7.  

    October 30, 2007 4:14 PM
  • James said:

    Well, from my experience, the only people I have run across that want to stick to XP are businessess, and rightly so. They have legacy apps that will not run on Vista, which leads right back to the 3rd party side. I have had numerous calls from the average user wanting me to upgrade their XP at home to Vista due to various enhancements that they want to take advantage of. Yes, people fear change and the amount of negativity published on Vista did nothing to help matters. UAC? Big non-issue for the average user. Apple has the same thing, but you didn't see it plastered all over the web as a negative. Public opinion that Apple is "cool" and can do no wrong plays into this.

    The different versions, yeah, it's a pain, but the average user just needs Home Premium. I have yet to see any of my clients in a conundrum over this, although I'm sure there are people out there that run into this.

    Vista isn't worthless under 2GB of RAM either. I'm running Business on a Sempron 3500+ with 1GB ram. Stable performance, no hitches. It was slightly painful until drivers matured. Back to the 3rd party side again.

    You don't have to register. Just activate. A couple of clicks and you're done. Not a huge issue unless you're running pirated versions. Then I could see why it's a hassle for some.

    It also came to light today that Leopard turns off the firewall by default, even if you had it on before the upgrade. Huge security flaw that has nothing to do with 3rd parties.

    Apple has had plenty of negative press lately, and without the previous negatives, the Leopard negatives would have most likely slipped under the radar. Not so much after their last few months.

    October 30, 2007 4:43 PM
  • October 30, 2007 4:50 PM
  • Glennyboiwpg said:

    Regarding the UAC like prompts in mac osx:

    Your right.  OSX will ask you for your password when applying updates/installing some (all?) programs, and maybe changing some system preferences such as network properties.

    This is not new.  Tiger had the same thing.  I haven't seen any more of them in leopard.  If some user has seen alot of them (due to some strange 3rd party plugin they installed)  then the next update sent out will probably fix it.

    I haven't used vista enough to know the extent of UAC, but i imagine its not that bad concidering if it was the media would have jumped all over it when apple started to make fun of vista.

    Regarding the: you don't need to register just activate.

    Ok my bad.  What I was refering to, was the stories about if you don't activate your copy you get slapped into that bad 'mode"  and I seem to remember reading reports about people who had activated being kicked into that mode.  And even not... activating is a PAIN.  I had to play tech support at work and I had to install office 2003 on a couple of machines.  Don't tell me "legit copy" + "enter code" = Never seeing any activation problems, cause I had plenty.

    But why don't we just pick this topic up in 6 months.  We'll see what problems are lasting and which ones aren't.

    October 30, 2007 4:56 PM
  • October 30, 2007 4:59 PM
  • yawn said:

    Apple is just as bad as Microsoft see it's all there plain as day. Leopard IS the same as Vista. Now that's off your chest go dry your eyes maybe take a holiday. I'll bet you'll pin your hopes on windows 7 instead tho.

    October 30, 2007 5:04 PM
  • James said:

    The activation does need some finessing to get it completely right.

    I ran into the same thing with XP, so it's not just an OS quirk, but the way the code is generated. Hardware changes and even driver updates have triggered a re-activation. Any issue I've ran into with activation has been resolved with a 5 minute phone call, but I know others have had differing experiences, so it is what it is. Customer service within the majority of companies could use some work. Apple and Microsoft are no different in this regard.

    October 30, 2007 5:10 PM
  • Phormic said:

    Oh dear. Is this the clutching of straws I see before me?

    A few people get blue screens due to old versions of Application Enhancer being present in their systems (which installs code in an area of the system that Apple expressly forbids) and we get articles like this one screaming, "ha, ha. Leopard is EXACTLY the same as Vista", which, to be frank, is just a little sad.

    Leopard is not the same as Vista, as every review written by an impartial observer (like, oh I dunno, this one: [url]http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2207556,00.asp[/url] ) states.

    Schadenfreude is fine but be sure to have it based on some semblance of reality. It's a big wide world out there. Get a Mac, install Windows on it (if you must) and enjoy the best of both worlds.

    October 30, 2007 7:56 PM
  • Dave said:

    I installed 3 systems (all were Intel) on Friday. Zero installation issues. Of course, I updated all my apps and ran disk utility BEFORE the Leopard upgrade. I used Archive and Install. All systems booted perfectly... just as I expected from previous OS X upgrades. I have found a couple of issues but no show stoppers. Most frustrating was VPN Tracker is busted. I am one of the only users of that app. But, they already have a v5.0 beta that works with Leopard. The good news is that I now have Time Machine and at least have daily backups of my critical files—with absolutely no effort, nada, none.

    Leopard is fast, smooth and adds a number of pretty slick features. I am resisting a weekend upgrade of 20 systems at work as they are all mission critical. I also have 3 Xserves two running Jaguar and one running Tiger... but these have without fail for 2-3 years now, so I am not in a hurry to introduce problems! I will wait and read plenty before doing those. I can't even remember the last time that I rebooted those servers. Reliable is nice.

    October 30, 2007 8:44 PM
  • Sam said:

    Thank You, Apple Fanbois, for your whining on how you guys don't have any issues at all. Unfortunately, 7 of my friends so far that have upgraded to Leopard, and have had kernel panics within 2 days of using the OS. Now that's off my chest, I wish all of you who have had successful installs to be happy and have fun with your Vista like Menu Bar and Vista like Folder Paths (And don't whine to me about how you guys have had that in OS 9, I heard that already and they're not the same) and a ton of other things that looked like it came from Vista. Have fun with Vista, or should I say, LEOPARD!!!

    October 30, 2007 10:51 PM
  • Throzz said:

    Damn! You are utterly right Robbie! I'm gona dump my mac into toilet as soon as it's possible and get myself some vista :) ... to be honest I'm running The Big Cat for a couple of days now and spoted no bugs at all. I wonder what was the reason behind posting the article of such low level. Was it that cold chill on your back robert whan you realised that Cat is realy quite good os (not comparing it to vista {laugh}). Or maybe some "othes" issues. Man whan you're running blog about tech writ atleast meritorical. And realy get a life cos getting excited with Os competition is sooooo borring. And to all others! Enjoy your systems weather they are linuxes, aples , irixes or whatever but don'e get over excited

    October 31, 2007 8:04 AM
  • Keeron said:

    Security flaws in the Leopard firewall: (from our popular mac site, err I mean digg.com)

    http://digg.com/apple/Holes_in_Leopard_s_firewall

    October 31, 2007 12:05 PM
  • Glennyboiwpg said:

    @Keeron:

    tisk tisk apple for allowing problems in the firewall to sneek by.

    on an unrelated note, Keeron, its nice to know your computer's safe... Vista + antivirus + 2 or more anti spyware + windows defender + windows firewall  + router/firewall.

    You have any resources left for any actual apps?

    October 31, 2007 1:29 PM
  • Uki Ross said:

    Well to be honest I must thank a lot mr.McLaws for showing me that the Os I've ben using home and work for couple of years is in truth a piece of crap. I belive tha now I should buy wista as soon as it's possible. Let's see if I could work now. How about installing "Shake".... nope errrr than maybe "Final Cut Pro".... nope again. Hey but my kids will be able to play loads of games... well if thats what you're looking for... than buy play station. And seriousy I realy liked this page for honest news from win world but this recent post is quite unproffesional.. and this devilishious Ipod ;)

    October 31, 2007 1:50 PM
  • JamesG said:

    LOL! you Windows-Weenies are quite funny. Leopard has had no where NEAR the level of trouble that Vista had out of the gate.

    Those BSODs are people who had unsanity haxies installed in 10.4 and then just updated to Leopard. Unsanity stuff hacks the /System folder (which it isn't supposed to do) and those hacks don't work with leopard. So, don't blame apple there.

    "Bricked" iphones? ummm. you hack the firmware on  your phone, then are puzzled why a firmware update breaks the phone? Any moron should know if you hack the firmware, don't run an upgrade on it.

    You guys are living in a fantasy land. You and MS just keep living in that fantasy land. We like it that way.

    November 1, 2007 12:24 AM
  • HG said:

    Bricked iPhones and now the Leopard debacle.

    You'd think that the 2 million plus iPhone owners and 2 million Leopard owners would be more vocal about these problems which the swift-boating bloggosphere is anxious to stuff down our throats.

    It's obvious the Microsoft camp have to find something to distract us from the Vista fiasco.

    November 1, 2007 12:41 AM
  • James said:

    I guess the 90+ pages in Apple's Leopard Support forum aren't any indication of Leopard's stellar release.

    November 1, 2007 1:35 AM
  • someone said:

    FileReference.upload function is also broken. See http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/10/31/broken-flash-uploads-in-os-x-leopard/ for more info.

    November 1, 2007 3:08 AM
  • Aaron said:

    Robert. I really respect your knowledge and enthusiasm for windows. And in general I really respect what you write. But sometimes you just come off too immature. I know you ackowledge that you dont always take the high road when it comes to win vs mac debate and will go it against the fanboys, but this is where I think you lose some respect from a lot of your audience. You dont see guys like Paul Thurrot writing like this, sure he may piss you off for claiming things but at least he writes in a mature and sensible way on topics like this that makes his opinions and articles far more valid and relevant to me (IMO). Which is a shame because you do have a lot of great knowledge and opinions to share, but when I read through articles like this it just makes me feel like im watching 5th graders fighting it out in the school yard. I think these articles also attract the idiots that piss you off so much and make you respond this way, kind of like a vicious cycle.

    Aaron

    November 1, 2007 8:01 AM
  • It's good to see that I can still stir up a good conversation ;). Just trying to point out that Apple is not impervious to launch OS flaws, and that all the Mac fanboys that laughed at us over Vista initial problems can stick it.

    November 1, 2007 5:44 PM
  • November 7, 2007 9:39 AM
  • SDA said:

    LOL!! whatever man, whatever. Who of you can say that have been using a computer for the last 13 years with only getting one (of the 57 ever existed) virus and having been without worries of viruses, crappy websites that auto-install trojans and viruses, and enjoying the use of it without wasting hours and hours configuring stuff?

    Many of the complains I read about switchers that just discovered the mac (because is the new cool toy, nothing else) are usually related to their inability to understand that a mac is not windows, and as such you can't expect to use it in the exact same way.

    While most windows people know only windows and use it because they *have to*, most mac users know both windows and mac and *chose* the mac long time ago. Then you have the fanboys and switchers that use it just because it's cool... they are stupid, no matter what side they are for.

    November 9, 2007 6:54 AM
  • Just checked my uptime on Leopard. Twenty days with over twenty apps running. Not too shabby for a .0 release. :)

    November 24, 2007 11:33 AM